Can A Catholic Worship At Orthodox Liturgies?
#11
(07-22-2021, 08:44 PM)Justin Tertius Wrote: So, just generally, if I were just interested in attending orthros and vespers (I have Mass nearby, so I have no desire to attend Divine Liturgy and I wouldn't take communion) that would be find and not an act of schism? I mean, I was just interested in attending the service, and I have heard of people doing this, so I am wondering what is the deal.

That would be fine. Even attending a DL without receiving should be acceptable. In fact, if you are not familiar with the DL and there's no EC Church nearby, I would recommend going just to check it out. Obviously, you are not going with an eye to becoming a schismatic.
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#12
(07-22-2021, 09:00 PM)jovan66102 Wrote:
(07-22-2021, 08:44 PM)Justin Tertius Wrote: So, just generally, if I were just interested in attending orthros and vespers (I have Mass nearby, so I have no desire to attend Divine Liturgy and I wouldn't take communion) that would be find and not an act of schism? I mean, I was just interested in attending the service, and I have heard of people doing this, so I am wondering what is the deal.

That would be fine. Even attending a DL without receiving should be acceptable. In fact, if you are not familiar with the DL and there's no EC Church nearby, I would recommend going just to check it out. Obviously, you are not going with an eye to becoming a schismatic.

Would this extend to certain groups coming out of Protestantism as well, particularly Anglicans and Lutherans? I know that they have no valid orders (expect maybe a few rare Anglicans) so, I just would avoid their Eucharist altogether, but could I attend Mattins and Evensong?
"Especially will I do this if the Lord make known to me that you come together man by man in common through grace, individually, in one faith, and in Jesus Christ... so that you obey the bishop and the presbytery with an undivided mind, breaking one and the same bread, which is the medicine of immortality, and the antidote to prevent us from dying, but which causes that we should live for ever in Jesus Christ." St. Ignatius of Antioch

"But Polycarp... waving his hand towards them, while with groans he look up to heaven, said, 'Away with the Atheists.'" Martyrdom of Polycarp
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#13
(07-22-2021, 09:30 PM)Justin Tertius Wrote:
(07-22-2021, 09:00 PM)jovan66102 Wrote:
(07-22-2021, 08:44 PM)Justin Tertius Wrote: So, just generally, if I were just interested in attending orthros and vespers (I have Mass nearby, so I have no desire to attend Divine Liturgy and I wouldn't take communion) that would be find and not an act of schism? I mean, I was just interested in attending the service, and I have heard of people doing this, so I am wondering what is the deal.

That would be fine. Even attending a DL without receiving should be acceptable. In fact, if you are not familiar with the DL and there's no EC Church nearby, I would recommend going just to check it out. Obviously, you are not going with an eye to becoming a schismatic.

Would this extend to certain groups coming out of Protestantism as well, particularly Anglicans and Lutherans? I know that they have no valid orders (expect maybe a few rare Anglicans) so, I just would avoid their Eucharist altogether, but could I attend Mattins and Evensong?

Would you be this fascinated with a synagogue?  Or a mosque?
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#14
(07-22-2021, 09:42 PM)ChairmanJoeAintMyPresident Wrote: Would you be this fascinated with a synagogue?  Or a mosque?

They all worship the same one God... right?

Edit: And I ask this question because it seems like a logical extension. If I am not forbidden to attend even the Divine Liturgy of the Orthodox, what is the reason for refusal from attending Anglican Mattins or Evensong? I would say it is because of the outright heresy present, so I would refuse to attend, but I could see someone arguing the same for the Orthodox.
"Especially will I do this if the Lord make known to me that you come together man by man in common through grace, individually, in one faith, and in Jesus Christ... so that you obey the bishop and the presbytery with an undivided mind, breaking one and the same bread, which is the medicine of immortality, and the antidote to prevent us from dying, but which causes that we should live for ever in Jesus Christ." St. Ignatius of Antioch

"But Polycarp... waving his hand towards them, while with groans he look up to heaven, said, 'Away with the Atheists.'" Martyrdom of Polycarp
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#15
(07-22-2021, 09:46 PM)Justin Tertius Wrote:
(07-22-2021, 09:42 PM)ChairmanJoeAintMyPresident Wrote: Would you be this fascinated with a synagogue?  Or a mosque?

They all worship the same one God... right?

Edit: And I ask this question because it seems like a logical extension. If I am not forbidden to attend even the Divine Liturgy of the Orthodox, what is the reason for refusal from attending Anglican Mattins or Evensong? I would say it is because of the outright heresy present, so I would refuse to attend, but I could see someone arguing the same for the Orthodox.

On this, it would depend on the text used for the service. Even with the argument that the Orthodox are in heresy, there is no heresy built into the text of the prayers of Vespers and Orthros. If there were, Eastern Catholics wouldn't be able to pray the very same prayers at these services. We use our own translations of the original Orthodox texts. So do the texts of Anglican Matins and Evensong teach heresy? If not, there shouldn't be a problem with you attending and praying along with them.
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#16
I remember a heated argument I once got into on a certain site with a guy who said he was a deacon, and tried to make the point that attending an Orthodox liturgy definitely fulfilled your Sunday obligation, but that attendance at a SSPX mass might not in some cases. This was before Bergoglio said it was OK.
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#17
(07-23-2021, 10:23 AM)Eric F Wrote: I remember a heated argument I once got into on a certain site with a guy who said he was a deacon, and tried to make the point that attending an Orthodox liturgy definitely fulfilled your Sunday obligation, but that attendance at a SSPX mass might not in some cases. This was before Bergoglio said it was OK.

Seminaries don't teach basic catechesis because they erroneously assume that parents and schools have already done the job.
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#18
(07-23-2021, 09:49 AM)Melkite Wrote: On this, it would depend on the text used for the service.  Even with the argument that the Orthodox are in heresy, there is no heresy built into the text of the prayers of Vespers and Orthros.  If there were, Eastern Catholics wouldn't be able to pray the very same prayers at these services.  We use our own translations of the original Orthodox texts.  So do the texts of Anglican Matins and Evensong teach heresy?  If not, there shouldn't be a problem with you attending and praying along with them.

I guess that that's fair. But, it would require a lot of research into the specifics of their prayers.

I ask because the two Orthodox churches near me differ in liturgy; one is Greek and the other is Western Rite, which is basically the Matins and Evensong from the BCP and the Mass with a few additions.
"Especially will I do this if the Lord make known to me that you come together man by man in common through grace, individually, in one faith, and in Jesus Christ... so that you obey the bishop and the presbytery with an undivided mind, breaking one and the same bread, which is the medicine of immortality, and the antidote to prevent us from dying, but which causes that we should live for ever in Jesus Christ." St. Ignatius of Antioch

"But Polycarp... waving his hand towards them, while with groans he look up to heaven, said, 'Away with the Atheists.'" Martyrdom of Polycarp
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#19
(07-23-2021, 11:38 AM)Justin Tertius Wrote:
(07-23-2021, 09:49 AM)Melkite Wrote: On this, it would depend on the text used for the service.  Even with the argument that the Orthodox are in heresy, there is no heresy built into the text of the prayers of Vespers and Orthros.  If there were, Eastern Catholics wouldn't be able to pray the very same prayers at these services.  We use our own translations of the original Orthodox texts.  So do the texts of Anglican Matins and Evensong teach heresy?  If not, there shouldn't be a problem with you attending and praying along with them.

I guess that that's fair. But, it would require a lot of research into the specifics of their prayers.

I ask because the two Orthodox churches near me differ in liturgy; one is Greek and the other is Western Rite, which is basically the Matins and Evensong from the BCP and the Mass with a few additions.

The Western Rite parochial Uses are either the traditional Roman Rite translated into English or the Anglican Use.  The Western Rite parish near you sounds like it is the latter, which will have Orthodox corrections and additions to bring them into line with apostolic Christianity and away from Protestantism. 

If you go to WR Mass of St. Tikhon (Revised BCP Mass) be aware that the filioque is omitted from the Creed.
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#20
(07-23-2021, 09:49 AM)Melkite Wrote: On this, it would depend on the text used for the service.  Even with the argument that the Orthodox are in heresy, there is no heresy built into the text of the prayers of Vespers and Orthros.  If there were, Eastern Catholics wouldn't be able to pray the very same prayers at these services.  We use our own translations of the original Orthodox texts.  So do the texts of Anglican Matins and Evensong teach heresy?  If not, there shouldn't be a problem with you attending and praying along with them.

It's not just about the prayers themselves, but those praying them. By actively worshipping with them, you're making yourself part of that group, and showing, or appearing to show, that you don't have any issue with that group's beliefs. It makes it appear that it's okay for Catholics to worship God among schismatics and heretics, and that unity with the Church isn't important.
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