Why are Evangelical Christians Obsessed with Israel?
#21
Because they assume that Eretz Yisroel and spiritual Israel (which is actually the Catholic Church) are the same, and so think that the references in the New Testament to spiritual Israel are actually talking about Eretz Yisroel, a country which came into existence ~1900 years after the NT was written.
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#22
(10-20-2021, 02:22 AM)jovan66102 Wrote:
(10-19-2021, 08:58 PM)newenglandsun Wrote: They think the notion that the Scriptural teaching that Israel has been made New in the Church is antisemitic and Hitlerian and cannot differentiate between an ethnic Jew and a religious Jew.

I'm reminded of a time years ago that I gave an Evangelical friend an article pointing out that Rabbinic Talmudism as practised today is not the sacrificial religion of the Church of the Old Covenant. He read it, gave it back to me, and said, 'That was written by a Nazi'.
Sometimes hearing it straight from horses mouth is the only way to get them:

“This is not an uncommon impression and one finds it sometimes among Jews as well as Christians – that Judaism is the religion of the Hebrew Bible. It is, of course, a fallacious impression. Judaism is not the religion of the Bible.”

– Rabbi Ben Zion Bokser, Judaism and the Christian Predicament, New York : Alfred A. Knopf, 1967, p. 59.

“…[You] will notice the great difference between the Jewish and Christian religions. But these are not all. We consider the two religions so different that one excludes the other. …we emphasized that there is no such thing as a Judeo-Christian religion. There is not any similarity between the two concepts.”

– Rabbi Moshe M. Maggal (President, National Jewish Information Service) letter, 21 August 1961.

“Judaism was not evolved in Judah; it was in Babylon that Judaism first became that which it was and still is.”

– “The Hebrew Peoples” written by Jewish authors Dr. H. Winckler, L.M. King, Dr. R. G. Brandis, and H. R. Hall. On pages 1781-4, Vol. 3, appearing in Harmsworth’s “History of the World”

“The return from Babylon [following the Captivity, about 538 B.C.], and the adoption of the Babylonian Talmud, marks the end of Hebrewism, and the beginning of Judaism.”

Roger Rusk, The Other End of the World: An Alternate Theory Linking Prophecy and History (Plano, Texas: Le Book Company, Inc., 1988), 182.
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#23
Thanks for this.
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#24
(11-01-2021, 10:19 PM)Lavenderson Wrote:
(10-20-2021, 02:22 AM)jovan66102 Wrote:
(10-19-2021, 08:58 PM)newenglandsun Wrote: They think the notion that the Scriptural teaching that Israel has been made New in the Church is antisemitic and Hitlerian and cannot differentiate between an ethnic Jew and a religious Jew.

I'm reminded of a time years ago that I gave an Evangelical friend an article pointing out that Rabbinic Talmudism as practised today is not the sacrificial religion of the Church of the Old Covenant. He read it, gave it back to me, and said, 'That was written by a Nazi'.
Sometimes hearing it straight from horses mouth is the only way to get them:

“This is not an uncommon impression and one finds it sometimes among Jews as well as Christians – that Judaism is the religion of the Hebrew Bible. It is, of course, a fallacious impression. Judaism is not the religion of the Bible.”

– Rabbi Ben Zion Bokser, Judaism and the Christian Predicament, New York : Alfred A. Knopf, 1967, p. 59.

“…[You] will notice the great difference between the Jewish and Christian religions. But these are not all. We consider the two religions so different that one excludes the other. …we emphasized that there is no such thing as a Judeo-Christian religion. There is not any similarity between the two concepts.”

– Rabbi Moshe M. Maggal (President, National Jewish Information Service) letter, 21 August 1961.

“Judaism was not evolved in Judah; it was in Babylon that Judaism first became that which it was and still is.”

– “The Hebrew Peoples” written by Jewish authors Dr. H. Winckler, L.M. King, Dr. R. G. Brandis, and H. R. Hall. On pages 1781-4, Vol. 3, appearing in Harmsworth’s “History of the World”

“The return from Babylon [following the Captivity, about 538 B.C.], and the adoption of the Babylonian Talmud, marks the end of Hebrewism, and the beginning of Judaism.”

Roger Rusk, The Other End of the World: An Alternate Theory Linking Prophecy and History (Plano, Texas: Le Book Company, Inc., 1988), 182.

you should be careful with how much stock you personally put in these quotations. At least a couple of them commit you to the idea that the Old Testament authors were different religions from each other. These are of course revisionist writers. I do agree that rabbinical Judaism and Christianity are both rival claimants to be in continuity w/ 2nd temple Judaism and cannot both be true. That is a good point. Our Lord cannot both be and not be the Messiah.
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#25
(10-20-2021, 03:41 AM)Marmot Wrote:
(10-20-2021, 02:22 AM)jovan66102 Wrote: 'That was written by a Nazi'.
What does it matter?

because the level of bias that a Nazi would have about all topics Jew related would be such that one should not trust anything he says. Caring about credibility and the Genitive  fallacy are not the same thing. Heidegger and Ezra Pound were a bit Nazi. Decent poet, worth reading philosopher...but I wouldn’t have time to engage a historical argument about anything from them. I can only engage so many texts.
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#26
(11-03-2021, 03:20 PM)Username1 Wrote: you should be careful with how much stock you personally put in these quotations. At least a couple of them commit you to the idea that the Old Testament authors were different religions from each other. These are of course revisionist writers. I do agree that rabbinical Judaism and Christianity are both rival claimants to be in continuity w/ 2nd temple Judaism and cannot both be true. That is a good point. Our Lord cannot both be and not be the Messiah.
Not the Old Testament, but the authors of the torah versus the talmud were most certainly of different religions, and I doubt the talmud or pharisees sprang out of nowhere.
Daily Rosary pray,
Scapular as She asked,
Little Office at my side,
Until the day I pass.

Through the highest heaven,
To the Almighty Three,
Father, Son, and Spirit,
One same glory be. Amen
Reply
#27
(11-06-2021, 09:15 PM)Lavenderson Wrote:
(11-03-2021, 03:20 PM)Username1 Wrote: you should be careful with how much stock you personally put in these quotations. At least a couple of them commit you to the idea that the Old Testament authors were different religions from each other. These are of course revisionist writers. I do agree that rabbinical Judaism and Christianity are both rival claimants to be in continuity w/ 2nd temple Judaism and cannot both be true. That is a good point. Our Lord cannot both be and not be the Messiah.
Not the Old Testament, but the authors of the torah versus the talmud were most certainly of different religions, and I doubt the talmud or pharisees sprang out of nowhere.

Well, that’s not really what you cited though. The authors you cited are very clear. They believe that pre-exilic and post-exilic Judaism are different religions— and that means the biblical canon is by authors of different religions. And I think there’s probably a lot more to unpack that informs your approach and mine differently, but I’ll leave it at that.
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