Why are the Ultra Orthodox Jews at odds with the Zionists?
#1
Is it simply because the Zionists aren't Ultra Orthodox? 

I saw a TV show ("Shtisel") where watching Isreal's Independence Day airplane show was described as somehow being akin setting fire to a Torah with a lighted cigarette.
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#2
As I understand the issue, it is at least in part because the Ultra Orthodox believe that it is the Messiah who will restore the nation of Israel.  Specifically, as a kingdom with the Temple rebuilt.  The State of Israel is sometimes called a Jewish state but it is also, in most respects, a secular state.
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"Therefore God shall send them the operation of error, to believe lying: That all may be judged who have not believed the truth, but have consented to iniquity."
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#3
This is a good article.

https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article...i-zionist/
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#4
The believe the Messiah is to re-create Israel and not the UN.
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#5
(10-29-2021, 01:51 PM)MalpanaGiwargis Wrote: This is a good article.

https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article...i-zionist/


Thanks. Will check it out. My laptop's gone wonky and won't let me click on anything "not secure." Needs fixing.


Got the phrase wrong before:"It's like lighting a cigarette off a burning Torah scroll."
Oh my Jesus, I surrender myself to you. Take care of everything.--Fr Dolindo Ruotolo

Persevere..Eucharist, Holy Rosary, Brown Scapular, Confession. You will win.
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#6
(10-29-2021, 12:44 PM)SeekerofChrist Wrote: As I understand the issue, it is at least in part because the Ultra Orthodox believe that it is the Messiah who will restore the nation of Israel.  Specifically, as a kingdom with the Temple rebuilt.  The State of Israel is sometimes called a Jewish state but it is also, in most respects, a secular state.


Fair enough, but yet many of them )the Ultra Orthodox) more-the-less live there.
Oh my Jesus, I surrender myself to you. Take care of everything.--Fr Dolindo Ruotolo

Persevere..Eucharist, Holy Rosary, Brown Scapular, Confession. You will win.
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#7
What no edit button? Meant to say "none the less.
Oh my Jesus, I surrender myself to you. Take care of everything.--Fr Dolindo Ruotolo

Persevere..Eucharist, Holy Rosary, Brown Scapular, Confession. You will win.
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#8
(10-29-2021, 08:17 PM)JacafamalaRedux Wrote:
(10-29-2021, 12:44 PM)SeekerofChrist Wrote: As I understand the issue, it is at least in part because the Ultra Orthodox believe that it is the Messiah who will restore the nation of Israel.  Specifically, as a kingdom with the Temple rebuilt.  The State of Israel is sometimes called a Jewish state but it is also, in most respects, a secular state.


Fair enough, but yet many of them )the Ultra Orthodox) more-the-less live there.

True, but there were Jews moving to what is now Israel well before the State of Israel was created.  Many were Zionists but perhaps some just wanted to return to their ancient homeland.  Even if one expects the Messiah to restore a theocratic kingdom, they could still move there in advance.  Also, I'm sure many have been born there.  Criticizing one's own country isn't anything new.  We see it all the time in the USA.
"For the true friends of the people are neither revolutionaries nor innovators, but traditionalists."
- Pope St. Pius X

"For there shall be a time, when they will not endure sound doctrine; but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears: And will indeed turn away their hearing from the truth, but will be turned unto fables."
- 2 Timothy 4:3-4

"Therefore God shall send them the operation of error, to believe lying: That all may be judged who have not believed the truth, but have consented to iniquity."
- 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12
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#9
They think the Jews will only be restored to the Holy Land when their Messiah comes.

That said, it's not like that makes them any more holy - they still follow the Talmud.
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#10
(10-29-2021, 09:13 PM)SeekerofChrist Wrote: Also, I'm sure many have been born there.  Criticizing one's own country isn't anything new.  We see it all the time in the USA.

Considering that there have been Haredim in Israel since well before the founding of the State, I think it's a good bet that the vast majority of them are Sabras.
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