So is Francis a Heretic or Not?
#11
(11-03-2021, 12:05 PM)Melkite Wrote:
(11-03-2021, 11:39 AM)Bataar Wrote: The fact that he's encouraging Biden to receive communion shows he's an public, manifest heretic and according to infallible church teaching, he's no longer a member of the church and therefore, cannot be its head.

If the Church can exist without an earthly head, then there is no excuse for remaining outside the Orthodox church.


THIS.


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#12
Francis is definitely not a good Pope, but I think only a future Pope can declare him a heretic.
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#13
https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07452b.htm#VI

Read here about Pope Honorius. The long and short of it is that we have no idea what to do, and we haven't for hundreds of years. Tis a conundrum.
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#14
Next Pope will have another "cadaver synod", like in the old times. A synod to abolish... synodality.
"We thought we could stay healthy in a sick world" - Pope.
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#15
No, His Holiness Pope Francis is not a heretic. It is the Teaching of Catholic Theologians, and of the Catholic Church, that a Pope Universally Accepted by the entire Body of Bishops, is by that very fact known to be a true and valid Successor of St. Peter, and therefore not a heretic.
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#16
(11-03-2021, 12:05 PM)Melkite Wrote:
(11-03-2021, 11:39 AM)Bataar Wrote: The fact that he's encouraging Biden to receive communion shows he's an public, manifest heretic and according to infallible church teaching, he's no longer a member of the church and therefore, cannot be its head.

If the Church can exist without an earthly head, then there is no excuse for remaining outside the Orthodox church.
Sure there is. There is a valid distinction between the office of the papacy and the man claiming to sit in that office. The office of the papacy is a crucial part of the Catholic church that every sede believes. We believe the office has been empty for 60 years and that the crisis in the church confirms it. Orthodox do not recognize the truth regarding the office of the papacy, let alone the truth of the Immaculate Conception, original sin, and other truths.
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#17
(11-03-2021, 11:40 AM)J Michael Wrote:
(11-03-2021, 11:39 AM)Bataar Wrote: The fact that he's encouraging Biden to receive communion shows he's an public, manifest heretic and according to infallible church teaching, he's no longer a member of the church and therefore, cannot be its head.
And how would you propose dethroning him?
At the moment, there's no way to remove him. I simply do not recognize him as the Vicar of Christ. Is he the secular head of the Vatican city state? Yes, but not the Vicar of Christ on earth.
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#18
(11-04-2021, 11:14 AM)Bataar Wrote:
(11-03-2021, 12:05 PM)Melkite Wrote:
(11-03-2021, 11:39 AM)Bataar Wrote: The fact that he's encouraging Biden to receive communion shows he's an public, manifest heretic and according to infallible church teaching, he's no longer a member of the church and therefore, cannot be its head.

If the Church can exist without an earthly head, then there is no excuse for remaining outside the Orthodox church.
Sure there is. There is a valid distinction between the office of the papacy and the man claiming to sit in that office. The office of the papacy is a crucial part of the Catholic church that every sede believes. We believe the office has been empty for 60 years and that the crisis in the church confirms it. Orthodox do not recognize the truth regarding the office of the papacy, let alone the truth of the Immaculate Conception, original sin, and other truths.

In the Mass the priest has to mention the name of the Pope. It's the "una cum..." part. Who does your priest mention? Because IF Francis is an heretic, and you go to a mass "una cum Pontifice nostro Francisco", you are actually sinning. Saint Thomas of Aquinas says "Peccat qui audit missam haereticorum vel alia sacramenta sumit", sins he who attends the mass or frequents the other Sacraments of the heretics.
However, you are also sinning if you are skipping Mass on a regular basis, while waiting for the "Great Prelate" who is going to rebuild the Church.
"We thought we could stay healthy in a sick world" - Pope.
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#19
(11-04-2021, 11:14 AM)Bataar Wrote: Sure there is. There is a valid distinction between the office of the papacy and the man claiming to sit in that office. The office of the papacy is a crucial part of the Catholic church that every sede believes. We believe the office has been empty for 60 years and that the crisis in the church confirms it. Orthodox do not recognize the truth regarding the office of the papacy, let alone the truth of the Immaculate Conception, original sin, and other truths.

An office is no office if it sits empty indefinitely. Sedevacantists will eventually be in the same situation as the priestless Old Believers of Russian Orthodoxy.

So, yes, there is a distinction between the office and the man who occupies it. But it's not a great enough distinction to allow for the office to remain empty. A non-functioning office cannot be a crucial part of the Church if it can be vacant for so long as to be superfluous.
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#20
Today a dear friend of mine came to my home and together we prayed a rosary and a chaplet of divine mercy for Pope Francis. She said she was led to do that when she was in prayer, and we got together for that. We plan on doing that again soon.
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