Millions of Muslims are Converting to Christianity?
#11
(12-05-2021, 02:01 PM)J Michael Wrote: It would have helped if he had given some solid references/citations.

Probably the only references or citations one is going to find are Evangelical sources.  These dreams, whatever their origin, are leading (for the most part) to conversions to Protestantism.  I've been hearing these stories for about 5 or 6 years.  To be honest, there are too many for me to think they're made up, though the numbers might be exaggerated. That said, it has been going on for some years now, so maybe the number of former Muslim Protestants is high at this point.  The real question, I think, is the source of these dreams.  Is Our Lord telling these Muslims to convert to Protestantism over the true Church of Christ?  I think to ask the question is to answer it, and these dreams are a deception that sets the former Muslim down a path that cannot save him.  

One thing that I've done over the years is read about the spiritual experiences of non-Catholics and non-Christians.  The interesting thing is how similar their experiences are, and even sometimes similar to our own.  Yet, instead of Our Lord or Our Lady appearing them (in some manner), they instead have visions of Krishna, or the Wiccan Goddess, or a Prot "Jesus," or other figures.  Given how active demons were in the ancient world, posing as Deities and receiving worship and leading whole nations astray, I'm not surprised to see the same stuff still occurring (albeit on a smaller scale).
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#12
"Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man, speaking by the Spirit of God, saith Anathema to Jesus. And no man can say the Lord Jesus, but by the Holy Ghost." 1 Cor 12:3.
"[I]t is vain to hope to attract souls to God by a bitter zeal."  Pope St. Pius X.

"If anyone deludes himself by thinking he is serving God, when he has not learned to control his tongue, the service he gives is vain.  If he is to offer service pure and unblemished in the sight of God, who is our Father, he must take care of orphans and widows in their need, and keep himself unstained by the world."  James 1:26-27.
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#13
Lot of cynicism going on. I have no idea if the claims about Muslim conversions to (generic) Christianity are true, but if they are, once those new converts start examining History, you know where they'll end up -- at least if the human element of the Church takes up the slack and soundly catechizes and offers traditional liturgy, which is highly doubtful. I mean, where are new generic Christians supposed to go once they determine that the Catholic Faith is the true Faith? Hell, we in the once Christian West have a hard enough time trying to find a place where actual Catholic teaching and the traditional sacramental rites are offered.

Anyway, any move toward Jesus (the real Jesus, the Son of God) and away from Islam is a good thing IMO.
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#14
(12-05-2021, 04:15 PM)Clare Brigid Wrote: "Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man, speaking by the Spirit of God, saith Anathema to Jesus. And no man can say the Lord Jesus, but by the Holy Ghost." 1 Cor 12:3.

So are you proposing that these dreams are from God?  That he's leading millions of Muslims to become Protestants? I doubt these dreams are a made up phenomenon or a Protestant fraud/legend.  I've heard too many to dismiss them on those grounds.  I suppose it is possible that this is an action of the Holy Spirit.
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#15
(12-05-2021, 04:21 PM)VoxClamantis Wrote: Lot of cynicism going on. I have no idea if the claims about Muslim conversions to (generic) Christianity are true, but if they are, once those new converts start examining History, you know where they'll end up -- at least if the human element of the Church takes up the slack and soundly catechizes and offers traditional liturgy, which is highly doubtful. I mean, where are new generic Christians supposed to go once they determine that the Catholic Faith is the true Faith? Hell, we in the once Christian West have a hard enough time trying to find a place where actual Catholic teaching and the traditional sacramental rites are offered.

Anyway, any move toward Jesus (the real Jesus, the Son of God) and away from Islam is a good thing IMO.

I'm a natural born cynic.  I'm open to reason, though.  I would say that IF these dreams are really from God (even in my cynicism, I actually think they're a real phenomenon), then it actually lends some support to the teachings in Vatican II documents like "Unitatis Redintegratio."  I'm not saying that as a point against your comment here.  This year has been a really humbling experience for me, and my position toward Vatican II has become much more nuanced, I guess one might say.
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#16
SeekerofChrist Wrote:
Clare Brigid Wrote:"Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man, speaking by the Spirit of God, saith Anathema to Jesus. And no man can say the Lord Jesus, but by the Holy Ghost." 1 Cor 12:3.

So are you proposing that these dreams are from God?  That he's leading millions of Muslims to become Protestants? I doubt these dreams are a made up phenomenon or a Protestant fraud/legend.  I've heard too many to dismiss them on those grounds.  I suppose it is possible that this is an action of the Holy Spirit.

I don't know that these dreams are directing people to become Protestants.  Maybe they are directing them to Jesus Christ, and they become Protestant by default.  In any case, embracing Jesus Christ as Lord cannot be evil or from the devil; that was the point of the Scripture quote above.
"[I]t is vain to hope to attract souls to God by a bitter zeal."  Pope St. Pius X.

"If anyone deludes himself by thinking he is serving God, when he has not learned to control his tongue, the service he gives is vain.  If he is to offer service pure and unblemished in the sight of God, who is our Father, he must take care of orphans and widows in their need, and keep himself unstained by the world."  James 1:26-27.
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#17
(12-05-2021, 05:14 PM)Clare Brigid Wrote:
SeekerofChrist Wrote:
Clare Brigid Wrote:"Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man, speaking by the Spirit of God, saith Anathema to Jesus. And no man can say the Lord Jesus, but by the Holy Ghost." 1 Cor 12:3.

So are you proposing that these dreams are from God?  That he's leading millions of Muslims to become Protestants? I doubt these dreams are a made up phenomenon or a Protestant fraud/legend.  I've heard too many to dismiss them on those grounds.  I suppose it is possible that this is an action of the Holy Spirit.

I don't know that these dreams are directing people to become Protestants.  Maybe they are directing them to Jesus Christ, and they become Protestant by default.  In any case, embracing Jesus Christ as Lord cannot be evil or from the devil; that was the point of the Scripture quote above.

Yes, I understand what the Scripture quote above was about.  But few of these dreams result in conversions to Catholicism, and Our Lord is omniscient, so if he is sending these dreams, he knows that most will become Protestants.  This phenomenon has been happening for quite a while now.  If these Muslims were first converting to a generic Protestantism, then proceeding to the Catholic Church at some point, then we'd be familiar with these stories on our own.  We wouldn't need Prot sources to report it to us.
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#18
"Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven. Many will say to me in that day: Lord, Lord, have not we prophesied in thy name, and cast out devils in thy name, and done many miracles in thy name? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity." Mt. 7:21-23
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#19
piscis Wrote:"Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven. Many will say to me in that day: Lord, Lord, have not we prophesied in thy name, and cast out devils in thy name, and done many miracles in thy name? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity." Mt. 7:21-23

You're implying that these converts are not doing God's will and living out the Gospel in their lives.  How do you know this?
"[I]t is vain to hope to attract souls to God by a bitter zeal."  Pope St. Pius X.

"If anyone deludes himself by thinking he is serving God, when he has not learned to control his tongue, the service he gives is vain.  If he is to offer service pure and unblemished in the sight of God, who is our Father, he must take care of orphans and widows in their need, and keep himself unstained by the world."  James 1:26-27.
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#20
(12-06-2021, 07:56 PM)Clare Brigid Wrote: You're implying that these converts are not doing God's will and living out the Gospel in their lives.  How do you know this?
Because if they're becoming protestant heretics, ipso facto, they are not doing God's will because God wills that all men become Catholics.
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