Upcoming change to TC
#61
(12-10-2021, 07:59 PM)Clare Brigid Wrote: You are mistaken in saying that all traditionalists agree that one can attend the Novus Ordo.

I am not talking about what I do or think.
I imagine I have one of the most extreme positions here.

Given the following conditions:
 1. It is a day of obligation. 
 2. There is not a Church which only celebrates                      a liturgy of apostolic or patristic origin in under an          hour drive.
3. If there is a Church which only celebrates a liturgy          of apostolic or patristic origin it contains liturgical.        abuses or other elements damaging to the faith.

I consider it binding on my conscience to ensure my family does not attend.

To be clear, I will not attend a Catholic liturgy which is celebrated in the same building where the mass of Paul vi is still being celebrated.
Reply
#62
Jesus has no obligation to be at an hour's drive distance from us according to the use and wont we think to be more fit to us. Let's not make the error of the Emmaus pilgrims.
That said, we have a moral obligation to attend masses were the body of Christ is treated with all due care. In my church there are families who drive two hours or more to get to the mass. They wake up very early in the morning, wife and kids to make it to the traditional latin mass on time and not attend some any mass near home where they feel Jesus isn't treated with the due respect. This happens also because where the SSPX doesn't reach there's simply only one latin mass spot that covers a huge region, expecially since Francis's restrictions.
Everyone has to bear his fair share of Francis, just because you have SSPX nearby you can't just go around saying the other masses aren't valid.
We can suggests, persuade etc., but we cannot demand this kind of devotion from everybody. When we say the other masses aren't valid masses we threat not only the unity of the church but also the Thruth. That's like saying over 90% of the Catholics aren't currently receiving the body of Christ. This is just plain wrong.
The authority of the Church "flows" through the  Pope and Bishops, and priests and reaches the altars on which the eucharist takes place. If we interrupt this flow we place ourselves not only outside the visible part of the Church, but also the invisible part made of the Saints, the Martyrs, Jesus, Mary, the choirs of the angels and God.
Reply
#63
(12-11-2021, 05:54 AM)NoliTardare Wrote: Everyone has to bear his fair share of Francis, just because you have SSPX nearby you can't just go around saying the other masses aren't valid.
Who says that?
Reply
#64
(12-11-2021, 07:38 AM)Marmot Wrote:
(12-11-2021, 05:54 AM)NoliTardare Wrote: Everyone has to bear his fair share of Francis, just because you have SSPX nearby you can't just go around saying the other masses aren't valid.
Who says that?

I think you know why the Popes used to be carried around with a gestatorial chair.
Reply
#65
NoliTardare Wrote:When we say the other masses aren't valid masses we threat not only the unity of the church but also the Thruth. That's like saying over 90% of the Catholics aren't currently receiving the body of Christ. This is just plain wrong.

No one here has said that Novus Ordo masses are invalid.  What we have said is that the Novus Ordo is banal, Protestantized and possibly a danger to the Faith.  This is the reason why many traditional Catholics refuse to attend the Novus Ordo.
"[I]t is vain to hope to attract souls to God by a bitter zeal."  Pope St. Pius X.

"If anyone deludes himself by thinking he is serving God, when he has not learned to control his tongue, the service he gives is vain.  If he is to offer service pure and unblemished in the sight of God, who is our Father, he must take care of orphans and widows in their need, and keep himself unstained by the world."  James 1:26-27.
[-] The following 4 users Like Clare Brigid's post:
  • Anon777, HailGilbert, jack89, jovan66102
Reply
#66
(12-11-2021, 11:37 AM)NoliTardare Wrote:
(12-11-2021, 07:38 AM)Marmot Wrote:
(12-11-2021, 05:54 AM)NoliTardare Wrote: Everyone has to bear his fair share of Francis, just because you have SSPX nearby you can't just go around saying the other masses aren't valid.
Who says that?

I think you know why the Popes used to be carried around with a gestatorial chair.


How is that related to this?
Reply
#67
(12-11-2021, 12:01 PM)Clare Brigid Wrote:
NoliTardare Wrote:When we say the other masses aren't valid masses we threat not only the unity of the church but also the Thruth. That's like saying over 90% of the Catholics aren't currently receiving the body of Christ. This is just plain wrong.

No one here has said that Novus Ordo masses are invalid.  What we have said is that the Novus Ordo is banal, Protestantized and possibly a danger to the Faith.  This is the reason why many traditional Catholics refuse to attend the Novus Ordo.

So basically, this position says almost the exact same thing that TC says about the TLM: it's a valid Mass, but it still shouldn't be performed/attended, because reasons.
Reply
#68
(12-11-2021, 07:38 AM)Marmot Wrote:
(12-11-2021, 05:54 AM)NoliTardare Wrote: Everyone has to bear his fair share of Francis, just because you have SSPX nearby you can't just go around saying the other masses aren't valid.
Who says that?
It's related because we need to hold the chair and we can't leave it.
(12-11-2021, 12:01 PM)Clare Brigid Wrote:
NoliTardare Wrote:When we say the other masses aren't valid masses we threat not only the unity of the church but also the Thruth. That's like saying over 90% of the Catholics aren't currently receiving the body of Christ. This is just plain wrong.

No one here has said that Novus Ordo masses are invalid.  What we have said is that the Novus Ordo is banal, Protestantized and possibly a danger to the Faith.  This is the reason why many traditional Catholics refuse to attend the Novus Ordo.
Then I want to say this, just in case anybody gets confused: not having a V.O. mass near you does not make up for skipping N.O. masses near you on a regular basis. And if you see serious liturgical abuse, i.e. pachamama abuse, it's your duty to write a letter to the Bishop, even if you think he won't answer you.
[-] The following 1 user Likes NoliTardare's post:
  • oldrover
Reply
#69
oldrover Wrote:
Clare Brigid Wrote:
NoliTardare Wrote:When we say the other masses aren't valid masses we threat not only the unity of the church but also the Thruth. That's like saying over 90% of the Catholics aren't currently receiving the body of Christ. This is just plain wrong.

No one here has said that Novus Ordo masses are invalid.  What we have said is that the Novus Ordo is banal, Protestantized and possibly a danger to the Faith.  This is the reason why many traditional Catholics refuse to attend the Novus Ordo.

So basically, this position says almost the exact same thing that TC says about the TLM: it's a valid Mass, but it still shouldn't be performed/attended, because reasons.

The one thing that Traditionis Custodes and traditionalists agree on is that the Novus Ordo represented a decisive break with the traditional Latin Mass and is not in continuity with it.  This is why TC says the Novus Ordo is the only expression of the lex orandi of the Roman Rite.

You are trying to ride two horses with one behind.

I recommend that you read Work of Human Hands, by Fr. Anthony Cekada.
"[I]t is vain to hope to attract souls to God by a bitter zeal."  Pope St. Pius X.

"If anyone deludes himself by thinking he is serving God, when he has not learned to control his tongue, the service he gives is vain.  If he is to offer service pure and unblemished in the sight of God, who is our Father, he must take care of orphans and widows in their need, and keep himself unstained by the world."  James 1:26-27.
Reply
#70
I second Fr. Cekada's book (may he rest in peace).  It is truly an eye-opening work.  Even the general secretary of the ICEL, Mgr. Andrew Wadsworth, considered it a worthy contribution to this debate.
[-] The following 1 user Likes SeekerofChrist's post:
  • Clare Brigid
Reply




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)