Catholic Work Ethic Vs. Protestant Work Ethic
#21
Just to spread the "Good News" - personally (in my political activities etc.) I am following capabilities approach by Amartya Sen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amartya_Sen and I find his theories most closely connect both the social teaching of the Catholic Church (integral human developmen) and with the current digitalising world economy.
Reply
#22
(05-16-2022, 05:48 PM)arnaud Wrote: My question was not about inherited wealth. We know that inherited wealth could be quite dirty, sometimes really, really dirty. SS Drexel and Seton inherited their wealth, I am sure that St. Helena didn't work either. I am not sure about St. Thomas More (thanks for suggestion!) - I will check him. Maybe he truly was self-made man from whom I could learn something.

Therese of Lisieux's mother was proprietress of a business that was successful enough that her husband gave up his career to work in it. Others can likely name other such successes, but only one materially successful, self-made Saint is needed to prove the point that being well-off doesn't necessarily preclude one from becoming holy.

The bigger issue, though, is to get to the bottom of why you think hiring someone is "exploiting" them, and why you think that, for ex., making a successful product that sells well and makes lots of money is somehow against Church teaching or something. My opinion is that you'd be better off reading things like Rerum Novarum, Quadragesimo Anno, and the works of Belloc on these sorts of things.
T h e   D u d e t t e   A b i d e s
[-] The following 1 user Likes VoxClamantis's post:
  • arnaud
Reply
#23
(05-16-2022, 06:32 PM)VoxClamantis Wrote:
(05-16-2022, 05:48 PM)arnaud Wrote: My question was not about inherited wealth. We know that inherited wealth could be quite dirty, sometimes really, really dirty. SS Drexel and Seton inherited their wealth, I am sure that St. Helena didn't work either. I am not sure about St. Thomas More (thanks for suggestion!) - I will check him. Maybe he truly was self-made man from whom I could learn something.

Therese of Lisieux's mother was proprietress of a business that was successful enough that her husband gave up his career to work in it. Others can likely name other such successes, but only one materially successful, self-made Saint is needed to prove the point that being well-off doesn't necessarily preclude one from becoming holy.

The bigger issue, though, is to get to the bottom of why you think hiring someone is "exploiting" them, and why you think that, for ex., making a successful product that sells well and makes lots of money is somehow against Church teaching or something. My opinion is that you'd be better off reading things like Rerum Novarum, Quadragesimo Anno, and the works of Belloc on these sorts of things.

Of course, I believe that Catholics can be successful in their jobs and businesses and there certainly are - maybe unknown saints, maybe just below sainthood. I may have my personal problems that probably should be solved by therapist, some strange mindset.

Of course, businessmen are entitled to have intermediation and innovation and management reward and of course businessman can pay just wage. I am more inclined to say that there are risks to exploitation in the business and I am not trying to say that any business is already exploitation. And Catholics prefer to stay in the safe side, no to seek the balance between just wage, just reward for shareholders from the one side and excessive profit from the other side. And certainly there are bigger noise when some catholic fails to find the right balance than non-catholic.

I also take this opportunity to apologize for my arrogance,  I may have made some people sad. That was not my intention. As I said - I may have my own bugs and problems.

All that being said I still believe that automation helps us to stay at the right side of mentioned balance and as such it may be another tool for sanctity and for the help of people in need and margins.
Reply
#24
(05-16-2022, 06:43 PM)arnaud Wrote: (snip) And Catholics prefer to stay in the safe side, no to seek the balance between just wage, just reward for shareholders from the one side and excessive profit from the other side. (snip)

What do you mean by "excessive profit"? If everyone in the world wants to buy something, and the maker of the product makes a gorillion Yankee dollars by selling the product at a decent price -- all while paying his workers just wages, and keeping costs as low as safely and justly possible --  is that "excessive profit"? I mean, if you're against exploitation, cronyism, monopolies, scams, and rip-offs -- well, who isn't? Is all abundant profit "excessive profit"?
T h e   D u d e t t e   A b i d e s
[-] The following 1 user Likes VoxClamantis's post:
  • HailGilbert
Reply
#25
(05-16-2022, 03:51 PM)HailGilbert Wrote: My apologies in advance if I'm looking too harsh here. But I'm wanting to get back on topic here. Therefore again...

What is the difference between the "Protestant Work Ethic", which American society operated under since it's inception, and the "Catholic Work Ethic" which was replaced long ago?

I ask this since most folks, including most Catholics, have no idea what both of them are. Nor do they know why we should favor and practice the Catholic Work Ethic over the Protestant one.

Nor do they know the Calvinist roots of the Protestant Work Ethic - - that is, if I'm not remembering it wrong.

And again.......

Hopefully this can be put in an a-b-c style fashion due to the reduced comprehension skills so many Americans and others suffer under.


So Vox, Jovan and anyone else, any insights you have will be greatly appreciated.

The "Protestant Work Ethic" comes from a book by Max Weber called "The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism"


[Image: 51H7o8EFGYL.jpg]

Weber says that the Protestant rejection of monastic asceticism (because lutheran salvation is only by faith and not by works) led to a worldly asceticism consisting to revalue work and profession and saving money. 

Furthermore, Calvinist predestination, which states that one is already predestined to be saved or damned before birth, and there is nothing you can do to save yourself or to know if you will be saved, because no faith and no works can save you if you aren't predestined to salvation, led to the fact that the only way to verify if one is saved it is economic prosperity, because economic prosperity is a blessing from God, and God would not bless someone predestined to damnation.

So, according to Weber, this produced a capitalist mentality (ethos), consisting of hard work, rationalization to maximize profits, and saving and capital accumulation. 

Be careful. Weber doesn't say that capitalism born with Protestantism, Weber recognizes that capitalism already existed in the Middle Ages and Antiquity. What Weber says is that with Protestantism born this ethos favorable to capitalism and economic prosperity.

And basically that's it. I (and more people) think that this thesis is false, so I cannot answer your last question.
Reply
#26
To Add that the common people interpret this as "prosperous Protestant North, backward Catholic South" Although Weber would consider this an absurd simplification.

For example, there is a famous Spanish writer, who in an interview said that we Spaniards "missed the train of history" because "We chose the wrong God in Trent". In front of the "Modern God, who tells you: work, negotiate, be an honest citizen, do business that God sees it with good eyes" That they chose in Northern Europe. We chose the "dark and reactionary God, who says to you: Report the neighbor who isn't a good Christian, report him to the Inquisition, listen to his ministers in the pulpit, etc"
Reply
#27
We work for the sake of leisure. A society wherein leisure is just a function of work, i.e., its purpose becomes to refresh the worker for the next day, has no concept of man's purpose. A sign that this has happened is the complete loss of the sense of sacredness and inviolate nature of holidays (holy days).

It seems that many members of the younger generations (millenials and younger) are reacting against the "total-work society" (to use Josef Pieper's phrase) by insisting on more time for pleasure and frivolous things. And although they see the inanity of the utilitarian work ethic (which is really what Americans mean when they talk about the Protestant work ethic), they miss the truth because they do not know how to engage in true leisure.
amare nesciri
[-] The following 2 users Like Filiolus's post:
  • Galahad3, HailGilbert
Reply




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)