On Wonder
#21
alice Wrote:

Quote:

Going back to quantum physics, if it turns out that consciousness affects reality (i.e., as an explanation of the Uncertainty Principle), then our mental/spiritual state would certainly affect our reality and how we interact with the universe and how it interacts with us.


Quantum physics proves that reality is not objective no matter how much Bishop Williamson would like to believe otherwise. (He talks about that frequently so I thought I would take that jab...no offense intended.) Reality is subjective...it exists in our minds.


Yet in your day to day life I am sure you act as though reality were objective. 
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#22
alice Wrote:Reality is subjective...it exists in our minds.

I wish it did... there's lots of things I'd like to wish away, and it would be great to have a million dollars in the bank just by imagining it there. But it doesn't work that way, so there must be something objective about what's real and what's not.
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#23
Paul Wrote:
alice Wrote:Reality is subjective...it exists in our minds.

I wish it did... there's lots of things I'd like to wish away, and it would be great to have a million dollars in the bank just by imagining it there. But it doesn't work that way, so there must be something objective about what's real and what's not.

 
LOL! I guess what I am saying is we can only experience the world subjectively... through our senses....Peter Russell explains it much better than I:
 
Perception and Reality Let us take vision as an example. When I look at a tree, light reflected from its leaves is focused onto the retina of my eye, where it creates an image of the world "out there". Photo-sensitive cells in the retina absorb the light's energy, triggering a series of chemical reactions that release electrons. Neurons connected to the cells amplify these discharges and turn them into electrical impulses which are carried by the optic nerve back to the brain. Here the raw data undergoes a complex array of processes that extract from it shapes, patterns, colors, movements and other features. Comparing these with past experiences, expectations, and other information, the information is integrated into a single picture, and and an image of the tree appears in my consciousness.
 
If there is anything about which we feel sure, it is that the world we experience is real. We can see, touch and hear it. We can lift heavy and solid objects; hurt ourselves, if we're not careful, against their unyielding immobility. It seems undeniable that out there, around us, independent and apart from us, stands a physical world, utterly real, solid and tangible.
But all is not what it seems.
First, the apparently solid table in front me is, it turns out, far from solid.
And second,we assume that we are directly experiencing the world around; that the colors we see and the sounds we hear are there, around us, just as we experience them. But even an elementary study of the processes of perception show that in this, too, we are much mistaken.
All that I see, hear, taste, touch, smell and feel has been created from the data fed to me by my sensory organs. All I ever know of the world around are the images produced in the mind. I think I am seeing the tree "out there", in the world around me. But all that I am actually experiencing is the image created in the mind.
This simple fact is very hard to grasp. It runs totally counter to all our experience. There seems nothing more certain than the fact that I am seeing the world as it is, around me. But however nonsensical it may sound, this is the conclusion we are forced to make.
Dreaming the World The world we experience around us is no more "out there" than are our dreams.
However real it may seem, it is, in the final analysis, all in the mind. We never experience the physical world directly; all we ever know is the image of the world generated in our awareness. And that image is no more “out there” than are the images of our dreams.
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#24
alice Wrote:
Paul Wrote:
alice Wrote:Reality is subjective...it exists in our minds.

I wish it did... there's lots of things I'd like to wish away, and it would be great to have a million dollars in the bank just by imagining it there. But it doesn't work that way, so there must be something objective about what's real and what's not.

 
LOL! I guess what I am saying is we can only experience the world subjectively... through our senses....Peter Russell explains it much better than I:

 
Which is precisely why Aristotle and Plato reject knowing reality through our senses.  Our senses would include scientific measurement, etc., because they are just extensions of our senses.  They only measure sensory material - so far anyhow.
 
Plato believed everything was a shadow of the Forms and our souls knew the Forms before we were born and apply them in life; Aristotle believed that we could extrapolate and discern what is real through the sensible.
 
They came to the same conclusion, though: the only way we can get near reality is through our minds and souls, not through the sensible.
 
There are some scientists working on a theory that parts of our minds are actually quantum automata.  That there is no "reality" until the quantum waveforms collapse in a region of the brain producing "reality".  Plato and Aristotle would be pleased, I'm sure.
 
There still lies the problem as to what is generating the waveforms and ordering them.  Plato, Aristotle, and I would simply answer: God.
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#25
"
Quote:Aristotle's view that philosophy begins with wonder, not as in our time with doubt, is a positive point of departure, for philosophy. The world is surely going to learn that it is altogether impossible to begin with the negative, and the reason it has succeeded so far is that the philosophers have never abandoned themselves completely to the negative, and thus have never seriously practiced what they have preached. They merely flirted with doubt" (Journals, III A 107).

-Soren Kierkegaard
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